More deceit to digest. I love progressives.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/n...global-cooling/

Nevermind.

Have a Happy and Ecological friendly Thanksgiving, Moody.

You too SMR, I plan on turning on every light in the house leaving the water running all day and turning the heat up. I won't pollute however never have never will. And to make you feel better I have a problem with running water when not needed as well. The other stuff just runs up my bill it doesn't destroy the planet. Happy thanksgiving all.

Conservatives conserve. Right on, Moody.

I conserve so much I have to say that I'm not much help to the economy SMR. There is a balance you see.

So, are you going to talk about Elliott? I remember reading in the other thread you said you missed when we talked about music. Why not start now?

When did I say that? I haven't heard anything coming close to the blues or jazz stuff he used to do on Idol since. I'm still waiting. I still love the guy. I'd love to have a beer with him and convince him to break away from the pop and go the root of Harry Connick Jr or Micheal Buble. That is where that voice belongs. Is that better SMR lol

You said this on the 5th page of the Hope and Change thread:

Ironically, I love Jazz and Blues. So we do have something in common afterall.

Why is it ironic that we would have something in common. I grew up in liberal rural Massachusetts. Been there done that. It's just that as I got older I realized that it is the private sector that paid me every week not the government and when I did need help I went to Christian organizations or family or friends. I'm 52 and other than driving on the roads they paved perhaps, I have never needed them for anything.

You lived in a wonderful state. Your homestate is where the Marriage Equality movement for Gays and Lesbians began. It has the lowest divorce rate and STD rates in the nation from statistics I've read. It seems like a really positive and inclusive state for Gay people like myself to live in.

My Dad is a 55 year old U.S. Marshal who does indeed get his income and his healthcare options from the government. He's happy and healthy. Positive government action is not evil, Moody. I know we'll never agree on this point, but I believe that the government should promote the safety, intellect, and prosperity of the people with wise investments in healthcare, education, and the environment.

Government can only destroy prosperity and they are in the process of doing it now. Good night.

Well, at least I tried. No one can fault me there.

Good night, and Happy Thanksgiving.

A thanksgiving tribute to my dad. It sure was a different time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Heyliger

Thank you for sharing this with us, Moody. Congratulations to your Dad for his accomplishments, military service, and the awards. He sounds like he was a great person.

The greatest generation...

Thanks you guys, He never talked about what they went through and I understand that was common among World war 2 vets. My brother went to many of the reunions with him. They just worked hard, raised families and started the industrial revolution.

Then there was uncle George Heyliger. a marine private that had a destroyer named after him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Heyliger

Now that I've started I can't leave out uncle Vic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Heyliger

It's a slow night so I'll end it with a female member of the family who's achievements stand on their own.

http://www.jenniferlarmoremezzo.com/

My dad was the same way about WWII. He joined up when he was 16. He was the most honest, decent person I've ever known. lost him in 2006.

nice family, moody.

It's three years late Judy, but sorry for your loss. I heard that something like 6000 WW2 vets are leaving us everyday right now.

thanks, Moody. Watching him slip away and losing him changed my life.

I believe the number of WWII dying. My dad is buried at Fort Logan and the number of sections that have been opened and filled since he's been there is just unbelievable. It's so sad. Those men had something in them that men today don't have. No offense meant. It was a different time, I guess. Hard work meant something. My dad didn't finish high school, but was very successful. But he also didn't expect the perks available today and never really took more than he needed, although I'm sure he could have. He made enough money to support his family well and was very happy with that, and he also worked right along side his employees and worked just as hard as they did, if not harder.

The one thing I see in common with all these guys is that they never complained - just did what they needed to and did it without asking for thanks. That is a lost art - I'm afraid that we have become a very spoiled, very entitled and materialistic society where what you have is never ever enough. There is something very wrong when football players and movie actors make millions, while most teachers barely make a living. The day that our kids have sports back in school again and pro teams have to hold bake sales to buy uniforms will be the day I feel the world is on the right path again.

Amen to 90% of what you just said Judy and I must say that was kind of unexpected. You grew up with WW2 parents which explains your response. I also had an uncle Howard Heyliger who was a fighter pilot shot down in North Korea. Thats 2 dead and one wounded. The only disagreement I have is that organized sports figures are overpaid. If the market allows it and the risk of injury being that high and the length of career being that short. I'm ok with it, But hell we have never been this close to total agreement. I would just like to finish by saying that the sacrifice in my family was done fighting fascism. I know Fred wouldn't do it over today for a Commander in chief so self absorbed and not willing to win. I feel terrible for our fighting men and woman in harms way today. They have to be asking why am I here?

Well, you know we would disagree on Pres. Obama, don't you?

I assume you are referring to Afghanistan. First of all, the rumor is that he will be sending more troops to Afghanistan so what the hell are you talking about him not wanting to 'win'? Our troops are stretched to the max and sending over the forces needed to 'win' would be a huge hardship. I have to believe that the majority of troops are breathing a sigh of relief that they have a Commander in Chief who is taking the time to develop a strategy that is realistic and less costly in human life and in monetary terms instead of rushing into decisions that effect them as the last administration did. If you could be fair minded about this, which I know is impossible for you when it comes to Obama, you would see that he is in a no win situation regarding Afghanistan. Half the country wants us to get out and half wants us to stay in and win. I guess my question is exactly what would we 'win'? Maybe you can answer that since you are so anxious to see this war continue. This president inherited a war that was managed incompetently from the beginning and now has the nearly impossible task of cleaning up the mess left by the last administration. I know you guys don't like to hear this and would like to forget that little fact, but it's impossible to look at where we are now without looking back to the people who brought us to this present moment. It was great for Bush to walk around saying he was going to win this and defeat this and blather his Cowboy diplomacy - the problem is that his administration was wrong about EVERYTHING and did nothing except mismanage Iraq and Afghanistan and pound their own chests about how tough they were in their own self absorbed way. To say that Obama doesn't care about the troops or that this is about him is just plain wrong, Moody - I think you are confusing him with the last guy we had in office.

and sports figures are paid way too much damn money.

[QUOTE=judyp,Nov 29 2009, 12:52 AM] Well, you know we would disagree on Pres. Obama, don't you? 

I assume you are referring to Afghanistan.  First of all, the rumor is that he will be sending more troops to Afghanistan so what the hell are you talking about him not wanting to 'win'?  Our troops are stretched to the max and sending over the forces needed to 'win' would be a huge hardship.  I have to believe that the majority of troops are breathing a sigh of relief that they have a Commander in Chief who is taking the time to develop a strategy that is realistic and less costly in human life and in monetary terms instead of rushing into decisions that effect them as the last administration did.  If you could be fair minded about this, which I know is impossible for you when it comes to Obama, you would see that he is in a no win situation regarding Afghanistan.  Half the country wants us to get out and half wants us to stay in and win. I guess my question is exactly what would we 'win'?  Maybe you can answer that since you are so anxious to see this war continue.  This president inherited a war that was managed incompetently from the beginning and now has the nearly impossible task of cleaning up the mess left by the last administration.  I know you guys don't like to hear this and would like to forget that little fact, but it's impossible to look at where we are now without looking back to the people who brought us to this present moment.  It was great for Bush to walk around saying he was going to win this and defeat this and blather his Cowboy diplomacy - the problem is that his administration was wrong about EVERYTHING and did nothing except mismanage Iraq and Afghanistan and pound their own chests about how tough they were in their own self absorbed way.  To say that Obama doesn't care about the troops or that this is about him is just plain wrong, Moody - I think you are confusing him with the last guy we had in office.

He needs to lead, that's his job to make decisions. He's not a state senator from Illinois anymore where he can just vote present. The only reason he will make an announcement on troop increases is because of the pressure to actually act presidential. Bring the troops home if you aren't prepared to lead is the other option. Agreed? He is nothing more than a child, oh I forgot that he is cleaning up Bush's mess. How could I forget that. So much for civility. It was nice while it lasted

Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm not being civil.

Judy I will never forget 9/11. I was working with a friend remodeling a place called the Sound shop that sold high end electronic equipment here in the Springs. I showed up early and when my partner arrived he just said I was watching the news. the twin towers are gone. I watched the news for awhile and we decided we couldn't work. I saw people jumping out of windows 80 stories up to avoid burning to death. Never mind the Pentagon and the other plane heading for probably the White House. Bush should have done nothing? Just think before you say cleaning up Bush's mess as a talking point every time.

9-11 hit everyone hard, Moody.

I don't think I ever said Bush should have done nothing. I totally agreed with the decision to go into Afghanistan based on what I knew at that time. But Afghanistan was mishandled and neglected once the invasion of Iraq (which I did not agree with) became the Bush administration's sole interest. The lack of resources and attention was disastrous and led us right where we are today.

Sssoooo, I will say it again. Obama is cleaning up Bush's mess in Afghanistan. And that is a fact, whether you like it or not.

and saying that the only reason Obama is making an announcement on Afghanistan is because he is being pressured to act presidential is just ridiculous. You make these crazy accusations backed up with absolutely no fact. You have completely lost your perspective.

I beg your pardon, he is creating a huge mess that generations of Americans yet to be born will have to pay for. Do you really believe that he will succeed in Afghanistan. Sending more troops and talking exit strategy at the same time. Look I don't like being disagreeable but holy smokes. He doesn't believe in victory he needs to appease so everyone loves him. It makes me angry that so many more young lives will be lost when he is not committed to victory. I say bring them home until we get a real man or woman in the White House. Then we can go back in and get the job done. It's just a 3 year delay. Hopefully we don't get attacked in the meantime.

This is a real man.

http://www.tircuit.com/bandofbrothers/mess...html?1044130694

What is your solution - to fight an endless war in Afghanistan? It's been nine years already. Do you think maybe there is no winning there unless we kill them all and level the country? Exactly what do you want him to do, Moody? Spell it out.

and you love being disagreeable. admit it.

So it's alright for girls to be denied an education and woman to be beheaded in soccer stadiums again? That speech was so strange. In the meantime 3 navy seals will be brought up on charges for giving an insurgent leader a bloody lip after he was captured and more than likely responsible for killing 4 Americans,burning the bodies and hanging them from a bridge for public display. What a strange reality you folks on the left live in. I'm sorry Judy,it just becomes too much after awhile.

What if we told the Germans that after D Day we would pull all our forces out in 18 months.WHAT! come on. It's unfortunate we have to be there, but you don't do that, sorry. Woman in Afghanistan need to be concerned just leaving their homes that they might be killed. Are woman less valued than Jews? They surely make up a larger percentage of the population. And just having to say that is horrible.

so is that the best attack you can come up with? Pretty pathetic. At least I don't have to listen to you whine about the cost of escalating this war - it's the ONLY thing you guys don't b*tch about spending taxpayer dollars on. And blaming the court martial on the left is just stupid. get a grip.

You didn't like Obama's speech????? I'm shocked.

Sorry to disappoint you - not everyone believes in endless war, Moody.

Your arguments are so mind boggling and so silly all at the same time. How can that be?

So bring the troops home. Don't send 30,000 more over there with their hands tied to hold on to your moderate base while at the same time saying they will be withdrawn in 18 months to appease your liberal base. That is playing politics with lives, one being my nephew who sits in a gun turrett in order to get reelected. It's pathetic. The cadets and the brass last night were not impressed, you could see it on their faces. The only big applause he got was near the end of that agonizing speech when he mentioned freedom.

That's strange. A reporter in Afghanistan reporting from a military base said that the soldiers were quite happy with Obama and his plan. and I don't think Obama was going for applause last night. It was a pretty somber speech.

His commitment in Afghanistan ends when it is time to start campaigning for reelection How convenient Judy. and if Stuart is killed in order to save his presidency I will not be happy. He has no intention of winning. He never mentioned victory once last night.

Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. Let's hope we learn from the Soviet Union and get out of there sooner rather July 2011. We will lose more innocent lives and spend trillions of more dollars despite an economy in deep recession with major social policy issues to deal with. You're right Judy that it is astounding we can spend tremendous amounts of money on defense, but the notion of healthcare for all for free? Well, that's too much money.

Those draft dodgers Bush and Cheney put us into an illegal war we are still trying to see end in Iraq. Our foreign policy continue to be influenced by the same Neoconservative ideology when we had Bush in the WH. The notion the military intervention is most important in solving 'terrorism' is still perpetuated by the Democratic party despite them dropping the language. There is no victory to be won in Afghanistan as there never was in Iraq. These wars never should have happened. And if a person is to argue we were stopping oppression by regressive forces then we are going to need to invade many countries around the globe. It is nonsensical BS.

This is pointless so why am I going there. Bush served as a pilot in the National guard as I recall. Obama was a community organizer. I don't know about Cheney avoiding the draft but I'm sure you could post the research here for all of us to see. I just know my family always was there when our country needed us. Many fought and some died. I missed Vietnam by one year, so I will have to exclude myself. I'd just like to add that graveyard of empires is not an original thought, please speak for yourself.